lazylightnin>supplication

Postby tigerstrat » Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:28 am

strumminsix wrote:
mttourpro wrote:
Come on, come on, lazy lightnin'Am-C-G-F-C-Am


Check out an Em instead of that first Am and tell me what ya think, please!


You are correct, sir. I admit the Bm,Em was off. Last night I sat down and actually paid close attention, referencing... I think it was 2/26/81?... anyway, it's mos def |Em //' C//'|. If the leading chord is played as Am, it sounds like it wants to resolve to an F.

By the way I love Brent's B-3 arrangement on this tune.
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Postby Pete B. » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:28 am

Timing wise I'm hearing:

Come on, come on, lazy lightnin' Em-C-G-F-C-Am

Em (3 beats)
C (4 beats)
G (3 beats)
F (2 beats)
C (2 beats)
Am
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Postby old man down » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:38 am

Couldn't work on it much last night: too burned out from work.

But I tried the Em C G F C Am just by picking up my nylon string and I guess I have to hear a clear version to see how to get it to work. From memory, I also think the Em is correct. (from the Kingfish album) I think it was really obvious when I listened to it back in the day, and was really proud of myself when I got it finally.

Still not liking the intro with the Cmaj7 G Fmaj7, but then I wasn't A/B-ing anything to live archives.

EBick's TAB still can get you through although I like my morphed version of 10th fret Am9.

One thing I'm finding, from an acoustic guitar perspective, is that everyone's acoustic guitars have different harmonic overtone accentuations. This would explain how someone could really like one chord over what someone else recommends, and firmly believe that their chord is closer to the truth. But it may just be that the guitar is highlighting certain notes, emphasizing them, over other notes. The resulting chord, for their relativity, is correct. In this case everyone is right.
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Postby Pete B. » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:53 am

old man down wrote:
Still not liking the intro with the Cmaj7 G Fmaj7...



The Cmaj7 > G part of intro sounds right to me.
[tab of a generic take on it]

Cmaj7 arrpegio > G

E|------------7--7------------3--
B|---------8----------8----------
G|------9----------------3h4-----
D|--10---------------------------
A|-------------------------------
E|-------------------------------


The Fmaj7 punches don't sound correct to me.
What chord inversion are you guys using for that?

What are those two chords they use at the end of Supplication?... D>Fmaj7?
Last edited by Pete B. on Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:19 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby strumminsix » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:58 am

Pete B. wrote:
old man down wrote:
Still not liking the intro with the Cmaj7 G Fmaj7...



The Cmaj7 > G part of intro sounds right to me.
The Fmaj7 punches don't sound correct to me.
What chord inversion are you guys using for that?

What are those two chords they use at the end of Supplication?


Intro: All off the 3rd fret.

Supplic: D7 Am | D7 Fmaj7

The only thing I'm not down with yet is the "Keep on trying" changes. What's on page 2 doesn't seem right. What I have seems closer but not 100% either.
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Postby mttourpro » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:10 am

Just read the last few posts----I will definitely try the e min tonight when we get together.

Also, the F major "punches" are IMHO, definitely correct. I'm putting the chord together like this

efac from bottom to top
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Postby old man down » Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:02 pm


The only thing I'm not down with yet is the "Keep on trying" changes. What's on page 2 doesn't seem right. What I have seems closer but not 100% either.


8th fret chord stuff, with major emphasis in the rhythm strokes on the middle strings only.

C / F Cm (hammer) C / / G
I keep on tryin’ but I, I can’t get through

It is what I used to use but I'm revamping everything and I need to smooth things out still. Put the individual parts together as a whole.
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Postby tigerstrat » Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:28 pm

Pete B. wrote:Timing wise I'm hearing:

Come on, come on, lazy lightnin' Em-C-G-F-C-Am

Em (3 beats)
C (4 beats)


I hear the first bar split right in half Em (1,2,3-and) C (1,2,3-and)
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Postby Pete B. » Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:37 pm

tigerstrat wrote:I hear the first bar split right in half Em (1,2,3-and) C (1,2,3-and)


I don't believe it goes to 4/4 for that section.

Here is a Club Front rehearsal:
http://www.archive.org/details/gd76-05- ... sbeok.shnf

Using the Archive "new player", you can go directly to approx 1:45-ish and replay that section using the little timeline ball.
I think they are keeping the 7/4 through that passage, with the first 3 beats Em, the next 4, C, for a total of 7.
I could be wrong, but I can count along with the chord changes in a 1-2-3, 1-2-3-4, manner (for a total of 7 beats) over the Em > C.

Here is another interesting rehearsal:
http://www.archive.org/details/gd75-04- ... sbeok.shnf
Using the L/R balance knob you can hear Bob or Jer working it out their parts.
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Postby tigerstrat » Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:22 pm

Pete B. wrote:
tigerstrat wrote:I hear the first bar split right in half Em (1,2,3-and) C (1,2,3-and)


I don't believe it goes to 4/4 for that section.

...
.
I think they are keeping the 7/4 through that passage, with the first 3 beats Em, the next 4, C, for a total of 7.
I could be wrong, but I can count along with the chord changes in a 1-2-3, 1-2-3-4, manner (for a total of 7 beats) over the Em > C.


I'm not suggesting 4/4. I'm counting each chord as 3 and a 1/2 out of 7.
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Postby Pete B. » Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:50 pm

tigerstrat wrote:I'm not suggesting 4/4. I'm counting each chord as 3 and a 1/2 out of 7.


Interesting.
To my ear the the Em is clearly 1 beat shorter in duration than the C, with both chords definitly hitting right on the beat. 8)

Here is an interesting "acoustic duo" take on it by Cubensis.
http://www.archive.org/details/nate_cra ... -26.flac16
Last edited by Pete B. on Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby pappypgh » Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:52 pm

tigerstrat wrote:
Pete B. wrote:
tigerstrat wrote:I hear the first bar split right in half Em (1,2,3-and) C (1,2,3-and)


I don't believe it goes to 4/4 for that section.

...
.
I think they are keeping the 7/4 through that passage, with the first 3 beats Em, the next 4, C, for a total of 7.
I could be wrong, but I can count along with the chord changes in a 1-2-3, 1-2-3-4, manner (for a total of 7 beats) over the Em > C.


I'm not suggesting 4/4. I'm counting each chord as 3 and a 1/2 out of 7.


Pete B was right - it's 3 on Em, then 4 on C. Just listened to 3 different versions - all played just like that.
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Postby strumminsix » Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:58 pm

Okay, we've got that interlude...

"Keep on trying but I..."

Here is what I'm hearing:
|Em / F / G / F |
With that F being very subtle to resolve back to C
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Postby Pete B. » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:54 pm

strumminsix wrote:
"Keep on trying but I..."

Here is what I'm hearing:
|Em / F / G / F |
With that F being very subtle to resolve back to C


One method I've been playing there is using an open Em, and waking the bass line notes as I strum the obvious strumming pattern, like:

Open E on 6th string [strum Em]
F [strum Em]
G [strum Em]
B on 5th string [strum Em]
C chord

(Where I chose play a B, you could also play an F, or an open D).

I think of this more as a Bobby part. 'Sounds like Jer is doing some jazz chords over that change up.
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Postby old man down » Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:58 pm

OK, you guys. Forget everything I’ve posted so far since I finally got things to resolve. Most of my good luck came from tuning my guitar first.

The song, basically, is a carousel ride in the key of C major. You can pick whatever mode variant you like but that is the skeletal key.

Got on Archive after an hour of trying, and in desperation picked the first version I could get to run which happened to be an awful version from, like, 01-06-78. Weir must have just showed Jer the song or Jer couldn’t find his stash that night, just awful. They actually practice the beginning a few times before starting.

Agree with the opening of Cmaj7, G, and then Fmaj7.

But that Fmaj7 is best suited at the 12th fret and go easy on the high E string. The G is a little difficult to get right since it sounds best at the 10th fret as an open A shaped chord.

Since we are in the key of C we have:

C . Dm . Em. F . G . Am

You can embellish these chords a little but try to stay close to them.

Verses

C . Em . Am . G7 . Am

To get that G7 to work like a carousel ride it actually should be played like a quick Gm7.G7 sort of thing at the 3rd fret. You go to put the G7 on but drag your feet getting your middle finger to hammer on its note to convert the Gm7 to the G7 chord. Works great and helps explain why some have been hearing a Gm there.

Then you need to fall down to the F chord as a F7. Do the same treatment there as was done for the G7 chord. Hammer the minor note up to the major note. Do it twice in a row just the way Weir sounds there at the 1st fret. You’ll really like how close this sounds to him. You can do the following C chord as an open C or go to a slide up C barre chord to the 3rd fret, your choice. Then over to the G at the 3rd fret.

Now you have a choice of a chord walk down or a chord walk up using inversions. In any event, from the G chord you can continue the carousel ride staying in key with:

G . F . Em . Em7 (or go with the Dm, roughly similar but also similar to some thinking of it as an F chord there, both can work; I tend to like the Em7 because you just lift one finger to play a loud open note to get the end of the ride effect)

Then it is back to the top of the ride and repeat everything over.

Finally come to the Am chord and hang out on it.

Agree with everyone on the G to D part.

Also agree with the Em . C . G . F . C . Am.

You have to play the song hard. All of these chords can get hit full and strong, but certain string emphasis areas at different times will help give the carousel ride a little more umph.

For the walk down chords really emphasize the pinky finger. It hold the song together a lot.

I really like how the song keeps moving around on the neck taking full advantage of the key of C. Really nice. And you can play it sloppy as you like once you get it under your fingers and really get both of their licks in. It comes down to how you pick it.
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