lazylightnin>supplication

Postby tigerstrat » Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:05 am

old man down wrote:From the album version of LL>>Sup, right at the change between the two songs and just before the bass lines, I have had good success with the ending chord of LL using:

e|0
B|0
G|0
D|2
A|3
E|3

For what it is worth.


So a Cmaj7/G. Interesting.
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
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Postby Pete B. » Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:41 am

Here's a pretty clean take of the Jerry intro lick (and a few other Jer licks):
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1977-1 ... eok.flac16

I found a few other LL on Archive where you can't hear Jer's intro at all.. making for a good rhythm track.
~pb
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Postby old man down » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:27 am

I have always thought that the intro chord for LL was Cmaj7 at the 7th fret, but after seeing mention of the Gmin9 chord in this discussion for another part of the song, I started fooling around with the minor ninth.

I am now really liking the sound of the intro chord as a 10th fret Amin9, and after you single note pick it, you then push the pinky up to the 15th fret on the B string.

Really nice and fat on the B string, and within easy reach you can do the high E string Garcia chromatic lines to get through this opening for a one man acoustic approach to this song.

Amin9

e|x
B|12
G|12
D|10
A|12
E|x

Something like this:

e|x-------------------------------
B|-----------12--12-------------15v
G|--------12-12--12---12----12----
D|-----10----10--10------10-------
A|--12----------------------------
E|x-------------------------------
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Postby old man down » Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:36 am

Pete B., yes a very clean version of LL. I'll be using that as a template. Glad to know of it.

The ensuing Sup, however, doesn't cook, which is a disappointment. When Garcia could get Sup to cook you could just hear him completely turn it inside out near the end and geometrically work the symmetry of the arpeggios to absolute perfection.
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Postby mttourpro » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:05 pm

Nice to see this thread was somewhat useful/interesting to quite a few people. Thought I'd mention that when we were learning the intro, we found that the guitar part goes down while the keys go up.
I don't know what exact notes the guitar is playing but for the keys, what I've settled on after several versions is

C D E AA G E G D F Major7 FMajor 7

BTW, as for Supplication, what we're doing is basically D dominant 7/9 and F major 7. I think the D9th is important for it to sound just right from what I hear.

I wonder what other songs might be worth really ripping into in great detail for folks here?
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Postby Pete B. » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:34 pm

I was playing around with this on an acoustic looking for an open position based "easiest way to play it" type thing (for the intro)...

Basically CMaj7 > C chord forms.

E|------------------------------
B|-----------0--0------------1--
G|--------0----------0----------
D|-----2----------------1h2-----
A|--3---------------------------
E|------------------------------

(Does the band double-punch a FMaj7 here?)

Follwed by a decending triplette arrpegio:

E|--3--2--1----0------------------------
B|----------------0------------------1--
G|-------------------0------------------
D|------------------------3--2-------2--
A|------------------------------2----3--
E|--------------------------------------
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Postby tigerstrat » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:40 pm

I always loved the 6/21/80 performance.
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Postby mttourpro » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:03 pm

(Does the band double-punch a FMaj7 here?)

Yes.
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Postby Tennessee Jedi » Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:59 am

I wonder what other songs might be worth really ripping into in great detail for folks here?

LOST SAILOR / SAINT
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Postby old man down » Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:48 am

I put a lot of time into LL last night. Since I cannot find a CD someone burned for me, and my computer was downloading ridiculously slow, I just took whatever I could find on archive and the one on the home page was a Cornell Barton Hall one from the 70s. It was just fine for my purposes. So I got it playing and my strings were still pretty new on my Martin. Nice and shimmery up around the 12th fret. I think they're a lot more tarnished today.

Anyway, I think we're all over-thinking LL. Weir would most likely have a simple skeleton sketch of his music idea to share with Jer and then they would see where it could be taken.

Unfortunately, I do not know how Weir actually plays it, and I play most of my barres covering all of the strings although selectively hitting only around a third of the laid-on chords at a time, and Weir doesn't play this way. But from what I remember from the Kingfish album, back when I ruined the album trying to learn it, I had a lot of it close, and as it is slowly coming back to me with the help of the archive stuff, this is what I'm finding.

For the verses, begining at around the 8th fret and working down I rediscovered that I still like:

C...Em7...Am7...G7...Am. That is all I like from what I used to do.

Now, from what you guys have provided, I really like the F7, but you should fool around with a quick F and then back to the F7 again. Preferably this would be done right around the 8th fret C, right across from it, and then the G at the 7th fret.

I still need definitive help after the G to D, G to D and what do you guys like for the chords right there after: C'mon, C'mon Lazy Lightnin'. I need these.

I know it ends with G G F F C Am, but what are the few chords between the last D and the G G. (Please help.)

At no point am I hearing a Bm in the song as some of the posts have indicated.

Once I smooth out a lot of this stuff, I'm going to get Jer's stuff working.

The song is so clear on the archive stuff for his melodies. All you have to do is persevere and after umteen times breakthroughs are practically guaranteed.

This song is really, really fun, especially when you get the 7/8 rolling strum working. really keeps the song on its toes, so to speak.
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Postby Pete B. » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:19 am

Yeah, there are still a few chord forms I need to get also.

Like the intro... it doesn't sound right to me to play a standard F_Maj7 as the punches between the single note intro lick.
Any suggestions?

I also do not hear a Bm anywhere in this song.
Can you guys check this and let us know?

For the first part of the verse, I started hearing it like this:

C, Em, Gm>C>"FMaj7/A"


F_Maj7 and Am are pretty close voicings, and using partials and dissonence as Bobby does... just sayin'.
(The Gm could be Gm7 or Gm9 or ???).

F_Maj7/A:

E|--0--
B|--1--
G|--2--
D|--3--
A|--0--
E|-----

I too am looking for my Kingfish cassette!
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Postby strumminsix » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:49 am

old man down wrote:I still need definitive help after the G to D, G to D and what do you guys like for the chords right there after: C'mon, C'mon Lazy Lightnin'. I need these.

I know it ends with G G F F C Am, but what are the few chords between the last D and the G G. (Please help.)



I hear an Em to C then G F C Am

Intro chords: Cmaj7, G, Fmaj7 (two hit)
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Postby old man down » Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:33 pm

Thanks, strumminsix, I saw that somewhere above but there were also a lot of other ideas, like the Bm. Ugh!

And I'll see how I like the Cmaj7, G, Fmaj7 on the opening.

Quickly write this stuff down and put it on a post-it in my wallet.
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Postby mttourpro » Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:08 pm

old man down wrote:
C...Em7...Am7...G7...Am. That is all I like from what I used to do.

As for that first Am7, it's so close to the C that it's nearly undiscernable....and, that G7 should be minor I believe.



I still need definitive help after the G to D, G to D and what do you guys like for the chords right there after: C'mon, C'mon Lazy Lightnin'. I need these.

I know it ends with G G F F C Am, but what are the few chords between the last D and the G G. (Please help.)


From my post on pg 2...FWIW, this is how I'm hearing and playing it

Come on, come on, lazy lightnin'Am-C-G-F-C-Am
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Postby strumminsix » Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:31 pm

mttourpro wrote:
Come on, come on, lazy lightnin'Am-C-G-F-C-Am


Check out an Em instead of that first Am and tell me what ya think, please!
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